All Rights Reserved. Excellent work with the pics and details. However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. Mar 3, 2022. Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). Replace the empty magazine with a new 10 round magazine and let it click into place. TSiWRX. Well, there are several reasons for this. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Cookie Notice Open the receivers to the maximum limit of the pin capabilities. Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/, Bolt catch is from a TacFire .308 AR Lower Parts Kit (not for an AR-15). The tension on the bolt catch by the BCG helps keep the bolt catch firmly engaged over the rear of the follower of the Pmag. There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. I realized you can fix this by filing or dremeling off some material on the rear of the mag body, or by using whatever generation of magazine they implemented to fix this, or you could just arrive at my next point and save four or five dollars more by purchasing a GI mag. It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? Here's a photo showing the mags. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isn't present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. Press the AR MAGLOCK magazine release button. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. : "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.". Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. They are reliable, well-constructed, and produced by a company that has a great reputation. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Loctite (red) or epoxy the Allen bolt into the standoff (threaded barrel tube), and lightly drilling the bolt head facets with a 1/8 drill bit until the socket teeth are rounded. I recently assembled this Noveske rifle and bought 3. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Either the hole gets deeper, or a couple coils come off the spring, or the tail on the plunger gets shortened. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. I'll try and grab my camera. The issue is with bolt lock back. Paste as plain text instead, i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. Suggestions? The follower I wouldn't think should have witness marks on it though. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? I think I may just shoot it a few mags and see what happens.. That should fix it. If so, it would cause both symptoms. I picked up a SCAR 16s last week and put 50 rounds through it with no problems at all (using the FN mag). My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. One new winner* is announced every week! That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. Thanks shooterrex. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. Copyright © 308AR.com 2023 P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. This will severly damage your bolt group over time. JavaScript is disabled. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. "And here remain with your uncertainty! Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. (not my lower, but my exact problem!) Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=Sig+bolt+catch. :??? Its Alex C. with TFBTV. The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. I like the idea that I can accomplish a speedy reload by pressing a button and kicking a magazine out. *, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. Depth of the hole? If you could post a pic of that comparison, it would be helpful. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. What corresponding dimensions do you have? Have the power still to banish your defenders; till at length your ignorance, which finds not till it feels, making but reservation of yourselves, still your own foes, deliver you, as most abated captives to some nation that won you without blows!". While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. 8: Bolt Carrier to upper receiver = 0.283. Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. Just did this, no difference. You are using an out of date browser. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. and might have several still in the packaging. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. Also check out this great, descriptive video as the Gen3 7.62x51 PMag followers have a slightly different contour which can catch the feed lips, and not rise high enough to engage the bolt catch properly on DPMS Gen 2 style bolt catch levers. Anyone else having problems with the 15/30. Professional. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). Pmags have worked fine in the past. I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. The mag doesn't need to come up so far as to cause this condition but the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. For more information, please see our How is it though that my. The bolt partially strips a round but doesnt chamber it and just drags over the top of it. I dont readily know of a solution to the feed problem but I dont want to alter magazines to compensate for a receiver flaw. Could i just have faulty mags? It was initially 0.323 deep. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. Maybe after Magpul completes their move they'll address some of their mold issues, 'til then it's best to check. Special thanks to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the cost of ammo, and a special thank you to you all for watching. Similar occurences? Fig. That should tell you what's going on. Has anyone seen this? [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". . Please refer to our installation videos and the instructions on your packaging. I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. The problem apears to be that the mag follower tab does not protrude out the back of the mag far enough, the follower wants to ride more . Insert the steel DPMS mag and lock the bolt back and look through the ejection port and note how much of the bolt face the bolt catch covers. As soon as my wife lifts our household arms embargo, I will have one. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. Clear editor. Correction to original post: If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). This solution will meet some states permanence requirements. PMAGs are pretty notorious for not wanting to work in various platforms, including guns like the HK-416 and M27-IAR. I don't and I didn't . honest. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. Upload or insert images from URL. How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? It did. When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Thanks for the reply. What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. If you have something major to change a quick PM to a mod will get it fixed for ya. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. The cause could be one of the following: Bolt catch assembly is too far away from the back of magazine well Finger on bolt catch is too short Slight slop (looseness) on magazine, or magazine faceplate A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Also, we'll be happy to correct or delete anything if you point it out to us in the meantime. Your link has been automatically embedded. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole = 0.692. I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. I'm looking forward to hearing some comments on this. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. What changed? I just don't know why my friend has witness marks on his pmags after use in my Scar 16s. Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . Also don't buy anything from Beavercreek Armory in Hillsboro, Oregon as they screwed me over with this poorly built, out of spec rifle. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. Im almost through with my build, however I have noticed that my Seekins enhanced Bolt Catch in my Anderson lower is not locking back on PMags like it does on my aluminum and steel magazines. This is one of my pistols. Powered by Invision Community, Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. NEVER use this product outside the standard method of operation as it will cause the rifle to no longer be in compliance and you risk arrest. Measure the depth of the hole, first. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? Coil bind on the spring? In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. Like CPT stated, it's supposed to raise it some and technically it can only go so far before the BCR bottoms out. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. I'll have to get measurements later. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . When the PMAG 20LR is inserted into the magazine well, some MWS rifles exhibit interference between the bolt catch and the rear of the magazine. Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. A new one can be sent upon request. The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. It was initially 0.323 deep. edit: i just got them. Crap! Pics to follow. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. Mine seem to be fine after trimming of course. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. Switch the Safety selector to 'Safe'. Next up is damage to the SCAR. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. I will lock back, but requires a strong pull, instead of the gentle slide fully to the rear with aluminum or steel. The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. I get asked a lot why, in almost all of my reviews or videos, I use good old-fashioned U.S. GI steel magazines in lieu of Magpul PMAGs, a popular alternative that most shooters these days are familiar with. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. It's a whole lot of details. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. I started construction with the lower at 80%. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Because of the cost difference, weight, compatibility issues, and not dropping free in many platforms, Ill stick with what I know works. NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! Scan this QR code to download the app now. I dont have another LR-308 with which to compare my measurements so I dont know which dimensions are problematic. Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters.