In addition to being my celebrity couple name with a girl named Polly, polyethylene is a string of carbon and hydrogen atoms. But if communicated to the public well, I think its an interesting idea, and Id be curious to see if a similar approach could work with bags. And beyond that, ethylene itself is a dangerous pollutant. ETHAN: When something causes as many issues as plastic bags, it may seem tempting to ban it. How many plastic bags are replaced by one cotton tote bag? As longtime plastic bag adversary Ian Frazier recently reported in The New Yorker, In 2014, plastic grocery bags were the seventh most common item collected during the Ocean Conservancys International Coastal Cleanup, behind smaller debris such as cigarette butts, plastic straws, and bottle caps. The New York City Sanitation Department collects more than 1,700 tons of single-use carry-out bags every week, and has to spend $12.5 million a year to dispose of them. ETHAN: Clips today came from 23 ABC News. Instagram, Follow us on Heres why thats a big deal. You can learn more at pbs.org/perilandpromise. Every year, around 500 billion plastic grocery bags are used worldwide. They say Hanukkah gets eight nights as if its special, but with Christmas, you get six whole months! And so I think, and subsidies can be quite expensive for governments to run or source to run. Take two minutes, help out the show, and get a shoutout at the end of the show by leaving a five star rating and a review on Apple or Podcast Addict OR join our Patreon at patreon.com/thesweatypenguin. Does it get recycled? Not So Fast. [wrong buzz, rewind] Cracker? So paper and plastic as litter paper, you know, decomposes, it breaks down, its not as harmful to the environment, if it if its litter. Thats primarily because more energy is required to produce and transport paper bags. TAYLOR: Yes. According to the Ocean Conservancys 2020 Coastal Cleanup Report, plastic grocery bags ranked number 6 for trash in the ocean. Were trying to get these deep dives a little bit shorter so you can listen to the whole thing during your commute or workout or walking your grandpa or what have you, and also make it a little bit more manageable for our team. Plastic is a toxin that stays in the environment, marine animals ingest it, and it enters their bodies and then ours.. And the most common substitute, paper bags, may be just as bad or worse, depending on the environmental problem youre most concerned about. And even if you use the word fee, sometimes people dont like that as well. And sort of the bottom line, what I found with in terms of like the amount of plastic, was about a third of the plastic that was eliminated by the carry out bag ban came back in the form of garbage bags, which do tend to be a bit thicker than the carry out bags. There are also some challenges regarding the design of such a policy, as Dr. Taylor explains. In fact, the only place they havent been is Dave and Busters. Its right up there with Taylor Swifts jet, Beyond Burgers, and figuring out which soup is best for throwing at artwork. 4 Absent the fee, which provides the economic incentive to bring reusable bags to the store, simple bans tend to shift consumers from one type . Not So Fast. We talked about a whole list of issues in our first segment, and those dont vanish. When the plastic bags were banned in California, paper bags were still allowed with the feet. The adverse impacts of plastic bags are undeniable: When theyre not piling up in landfills, theyre blocking storm drains, littering streets, getting stuck in trees, and contaminating oceans, where fish, seabirds, and other marine animals eat them or get tangled up in them. One of the most comprehensive research papers on the environmental impact of bags, published in 2007 by anAustralian state government agency, found that paper bags have a higher carbon footprint than plastic. Also, this question is something like asking, Would you prefer to get a parking ticket or a tax assessment? It depends on the specifics, but its better to avoid both wherever possible. Goldstein is confident that if people switch to reusable bags, even cotton ones, and use them consistently, that will ultimately be better for the environment. California became the first to introduce regulations banning single-use plastic bags in August 2014. Fees have a smaller, but still significant, effect. LASZLO: What I want to know is why I wasnt consulted in inviting this creature into our home. Rather than automatically using a bag, just ask the customer for their bags, or maybe even stop keeping bags at the register at all. Not So Fast' by Ben Adler & 'Choking the oceans with plastic' by Charles J. Moore. ETHAN: Obviously, this is a ridiculously nuanced issue, and while it might not be the most pressing concern of our generation, its absolutely worth discussing, especially given how popular the topic has been. The measure now under consideration in Massachusetts, for example, would mandate that single-use paper bags contain at least 40 percent recycled fiber. Another entirely different approach could be making plastic bags more sustainable. [booo] Yeah, that was even rough for my standards. Harmful to human health 6. Then Oregon, Connecticut, Maine and Vermont passed laws against them. Like, get a life, man. Not good places to be adding more polluting facilities. Twitter, Follow us on So thats exactly what I did. In fact, eight states have gone so far as to ban single-use plastic bags, and over 200 counties and municipalities have enacted ordinances either imposing a fee on plastic bags or banning them. Anything thats not zero gets, you know a pretty big impact. People look at [paper] and say its degradable, therefore its much better for the environment, but its not in terms of climate change impact, says David Tyler, a professor of chemistry at the University of Oregon who has examined the research on the environmental impact of bag use. A lovely tote made from single use plastic bags. Thats right, I said it. Major funding forPeril and Promiseis provided byDr. P. Roy Vagelos and Diana T. Vageloswith additional funding from Sue and Edgar Wachenheim III,and the Estate of Worthington Mayo-Smith. Lets start with paper: the only kind of bag that is, in the most literal tense, tearible. Increasingly, environmentalists are pushing for laws that include fees for all single-use bags, and that require paper bags to be made with recycled content, which could lower their carbon footprint. I also mistake plastic bags for food sometimes, and let me tell you, Walmart makes a delicious tall kitchen. Spoiler alert: plastics parents got divorced at age eleven and it still isnt over it. As far as I know, nobody has done the definitive analysis, which would necessarily need to have a large number of caveats and qualifications. Once ethylene is turned into plastic, its not harmful, youre not going to get a disease just by touching a plastic bag, unless its March 2020 when every cashier in America was convinced thats how Covid spreads. Politicians "looking for something to do" like banning plastic bags routinely do more harm than good. ETHAN: And youve written several papers on plastic bags, Ill start with your paper that won the Journal of Environmental Economics and Managements Best Paper Prize in 2020, which discussed some of the unintended consequences of plastic bag bans. Or is it a little too nuanced to make that type of assessment? A Canadian Gas Field Is Polluting First Nation Communities, How Climate Change, Poverty, and Social Stigma Affect Menstrual Hygiene. Shortly after, the Massachusetts State Senate passed a measure that would ban plastic bags from being dispensed by many retail businesses and require acharge of 10 cents or more for a recycled paper or reusable bag. The Ike Dike is the Army Corps of Engineers largest project ever. Its what we put in the bag at the grocery store that really matters.. The past and future are tightly linked in conventional quantum mechanics. Last month, the New York City Council passed a 5-cent-per-bag fee on single-use bags handed out by most retailers. The first time you say your dog ate it, its a funny story, but by the fifth time, youre definitely going to fail first grade. ETHAN: When environmentalists talk about plastic bags though, its often not about the production process, but rather what happens after we throw them out. Thats a border shopping behavior. If you want to take two minutes to help out The Sweaty Penguin, you can either leave us a five star rating and review or join our Patreon at patreon.com/thesweatypenguin. Like cigarettes, plastic bags have recently gone from a tolerated nuisance to a widely despised and discouraged vice. debut in season five. And the most common substitute, paper bags, may be just as bad or worse, depending on the environmental problem youre most concerned about. Two weeks ago, the Massachusetts State Senate passed a measure that would ban plastic bags from being dispensed In addition to being my celebrity couple name with a girl named Polly, polyethylene is a string of carbon and hydrogen atoms. And so in terms of ranking those, that would be my order, taxes, hybrid bands, and then least preferred standalone bands. But not just anywhere. As far as I know, nobody has done the definitive analysis, which would necessarily need to have a large number of caveats and qualifications. Nielson & Associates Manhasset, NY : Banning Plastic Bags Is Great for the World, Right? Okay, maybe Im going overboard, but honestly, if it were a small ordeal to get a single-use bag, I could see the inconvenience of that motivating people to bring their reusable bags to the store a whole lot more than a five or ten cent tax. Natasha Mascarenhas. NADJA: Will you at least go and talk to it? The opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the host and guests. You can conceive of the possibility of collecting plastic bags from the ocean, but microplastics are almost impossible to remove from their environments. The Massachusetts proposal may not become law this year, but it's the latest sign that the plastic bag industry is losing this war. Thats the intended goal of the policy. Adler, Ben. I took a look at a 2017 Congressional Report which found the petrochemical industry was, at the time, pursuing 48 new plastics-related projects in the Houston area. Nakuru, Kenya In the open-air Wakulima Market thin plastic shopping bags have disappeared, banished by Kenya's national bag ban. Not So Fast by Ben Adler The author of the piece Ben Adler agrees that plastic bags have an adverse impact on the environment. Not a fan of arcade games, I guess. Not easy to recycle 7. Whats more? (The crunchy rich should already have more than enough tote bags from PBS and Whole Foods.). But what if reusable bags arent good either? So were still figuring it out right now, but weve got a great episode for you today. There are so very many variables. Cracker plants release air pollutants such as benzene which is linked to cancer and childhood leukemia, toluene which is linked to birth defects and brain, liver, and kidney problems, formaldehyde which is a known carcinogen, and particulate matter which is linked to cardiovascular and respiratory disease and lung and bladder cancer. And in particular, stores start offering thicker plastic bags and sticker paper bags for free. Plastic bags should be banned as it pollutes the water and land. "Exactly what happens to a plastic bag when it is littered depends very much on where it enters the environment and the mechanisms that cause it . There are other options though. For example, because paper bags take up so much more space, more trucks are needed to ship paper bags to a store than to ship plastic bags. ETHAN: So where do we go from here? Plastic is a toxin that stays in the environment, marine animals ingest it, and it enters their bodies and then ours.. The reasons for papers higher carbon footprint are complex, but can mostly be understood as stemming from the fact that paper bags are much thicker than plastic bags. Some social justice activists who work in low-income urban neighborhoods or communities of color also argue that plastic bags are a particular scourge. Over Half of the Worlds Penguin Species Are Threatened, A New Natural Gas Project in Mozambique Gives Locals All of the Costs and None of the Benefits. [wind blowing, floors creaking, various night time sounds]. But thats not to say plastic bag recycling couldnt be more widely implemented. How do you tackle microplastics? Heres just one tiny example: Does the paper for paper bags come from a recycled paper mill on Staten Island or a virgin forest in northern Canada? TAYLOR: Yeah, well, Ill circle back to the three Rs. WIRED is where tomorrow is realized. ETHAN: Beyond climate though, crackers cause a lot of issues for surrounding communities. And so this is a really tense issue around. Theres the impact of material, if it makes it into the environment as litter, theres the impact of the production of it on emissions and climate. This is often called border shopping. Increasingly, environmentalists are pushing for laws that include fees for all single-use bags, and that require paper bags to be made with recycled content, which could lower their carbon footprint. 500 billion plastic grocery bags are used worldwide. Again, Im not referring to carbon emissions, Im talking nitrous oxide, particulate matter, carbon monoxide, smog, Sagittariuses, really bad stuff. In a rational model. You can learn more at pbs.org/perilandpromise. Its taken long enough. And just a few weeks ago, California took it one step further, banning not just single-use plastic bags at checkout, but those smaller produce bags as well. Wonder why you hear about legislation concerning plastic bags? TAYLOR: Its a great question, I would say its a bit nuanced, because that was just respect with respect to the plastic bags. Bag bans seem to be all the rage, but its not the only option. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); A nonprofit, independent media organization dedicated to telling stories of climate solutions and a just future. Before I jump in, were trying out a little bit of a different format today. The first time you say your dog ate it, its a funny story, but by the fifth time, youre definitely going to fail first grade. I also got retail data from the store on what people were purchasing, in particular, what kinds of garbage bags they were purchasing. Thats leading to a split in the anti-bag movement. ETHAN: Obviously, bags are the only policy option like we talked about theres fees theres more voluntary approaches You know, with straws, something that intrigued me was default choice modification. Choking the oceans with Plastics. So Im trained in thinking about how People respond to environmental [00:00:32] policy and particular and the policies that I focused on have been around waste and food. Thats where this gets interesting. And thats definitely a behavioral effect that we find. And those seven ethylene projects are concentrated in just three counties in Texas: Harris County, Jefferson County, and Brazoria County. But what if reusable bags arent good either? And when I no longer had access to those carry out bags, it meant I didnt have this quote unquote, free source of garbage bags anymore. This story originally appeared on Grist and is part of the Climate Desk collaboration. Its been more than five years since single-use plastic bags like these were banned from grocery stores, a ban advocates say made strides for the environment. Put all that together, and National Geographic estimates that a paper bag would need to be used anywhere from 3 to 43 times in order to neutralize its environmental impact as compared to plastic. Banning Plastic Bags Is Great for the World, Right? It honestly sounds like a superhero, doesnt it? When we got rid of the carry out bags, people had to start purchasing garbage bags. That's why any good plastic bag ban attempts to avoid a surge in paper bag use by also implementing a paper bag fee, ideally nudging shoppers to bring bags from home instead. And to be fair, it is an issue. For example, I talked in our plastic straws episode about something called default choice modification. You start growing weird pimples at 10, youre crying five times a week at 15, and by 20, someone has to carry you into a therapists office, throw you on the couch, and say its broken, fix it. For plastic though, 20 years is much less time than most other single-use plastic products. We use [drumroll] oil and gas! The measure now under consideration in Massachusetts, for example, would mandate that single-use paper bags contain at least 40 percent recycled fiber. Listen Up America: You Need to Learn How to Recycle. A single mom, or someone working two jobs, is more likely to have to do her shopping in a rush on the way home from work than to go out specifically with a tote bag in hand. With respect to the bonuses we talked about. Both authors of these essays specifically speak about how the use of plastic can be harmful for the mother-nature, and have introduced ways to compensate this loss. WIRED 181k followers More information Banning Plastic Bags Is Great for the World, Right? Doing either earns you a special shoutout at the end of the show; joining the Patreon gets you merch, bonus content, and a whole lot more. [wrong buzzer, rewind] Cracker? Washington, DCs government estimates that its 5-cent bag tax has led to a 60 percent reduction in the number of these bags being used, although that figure is contested by other sources. I know it sounds silly, but it would make a difference. In Staten Island, perhaps? Only 2.4 percent of the worlds cropland is planted with cotton, yet it accounts for 24 percent of the global market for insecticides and 11 percent for pesticides, the World Wildlife Fund reports. So I wont rehash it all today, but if you listen to our episodes on fracking or the Permian Basin or the Haynesville Shale, youll learn a little bit about the villain origin story of plastic bags, and some of the many issues to which they contribute. TAYLOR: Yeah, I think one thing that stands out, when we think about plastic bags, and when we think about sort of packaging, in general, is that theres this perception that its free, that theres no price, and that you can you know, youre not paying for the plastic bags that you use, thats not actually true, you actually do pay for the plastic bags that you use at the supermarket. But sales of garbage bags increased substantially and especially those small garbage bags that you know, are around the same size as the carryout back. Throwing This Out Here: Plastic Bags Are Amazing and You Should Appreciate Them More, Trash Is Ugly, But Recycling Is Downright Beautiful. ETHAN: Now, it is worth noting that a single-use plastic grocery bag takes about 20 years to break down in the environment about as long as it takes the average to break down. And I also looked at not just shopping at a supermarket across the border but also eating out Instead of grocery shopping, and I do find that there is this, you know, substitution, this cross border shopping, some people do try to avoid going to, you know, regulated supermarkets, especially if they live near a border, where they can easily get to another another grocery store, while other customers if they dont live near a border, they might be slightly more likely to decide to eat out for dinner as opposed to grocery shopping, especially if they didnt bring their bags with them or that party. There are eight states that ban single-use plastic bags, and these are Oregon, Vermont, California, Hawaii, Delaware, New York, Maine, and Connecticut. Because we do see such a strong response of having to pay for your bag, when you have to pay for your bag, it makes it an active decision, instead of just default, getting a whole bunch of bags that you dont really think about, we find that bag taxes are actually as effective as bag bans, and getting people to change their behavior, potentially without some of the unintended consequences of completely eliminating an option making people switch to other bags, which might actually be more harmful for the environment. The Supreme Court Has Delayed Its Abortion Pill Decision. So I was really interested to see what the data would say about this were people having to buy more garbage bags now that the plastic bags that they got from grocery stores were no longer available. TAYLOR: So an interesting thing with local policies, and theres a lot of debate about whether policies like these should be implemented at the state level or at the local level. It is the essential source of information and ideas that make sense of a world in constant transformation. WIRED may earn a portion of sales from products that are purchased through our site as part of our Affiliate Partnerships with retailers. The big difference is that paper does biodegrade eventually. Some bills, like in Massachusetts, try to reduce the use of paper bags as well as plastic, but still favor paper. Paper does have its own environmental consequences in terms of how much energy it takes to generate, acknowledges Emily Norton, director of the Massachusetts Sierra Club. Microsoft quietly supported legislation to make it easier to fix devices. Also, this question is something like asking, Would you prefer to get a parking ticket or a tax assessment? It depends on the specifics, but its better to avoid both wherever possible. Goldstein is confident that if people switch to reusable bags, even cotton ones, and use them consistently, that will ultimately be better for the environment. bags, or maybe even stop keeping bags at the register at all. And so I was interested in understanding to what degree does a patchwork of policies actually lead customers to switch where theyre shopping. Last month, the New York City Council passed a 5-cent-per-bag fee on single-use bags handed out by most retailers. "Banning Plastic Bags Is Great For The World, Right? They were reusing their carry out bags as garbage bags. [slam the wrong buzz several times, then rewind], Okay, okay cracker? How bad was Tucker Carlson for the planet. [wrong buzz] Aw, dammit, I was so close! Bags made out of woven plastic like polypropylene can be reused over and over, meaning even though there are consequences to producing plastic, you dont have to manufacture as many bags. Every time you need to process a new batch of polyethylene, you bring it to the facility and say, Polly want a cracker?. One reason plastic bags should be banned is that they hurt the environment. Eastern Hemlocks Are Declining. But what I do know I find so fascinating. Nearly one year after New York became the second state in the nation to pass a ban on grocery store plastic bags the law is going into effect on Sunday. Not only are there these human health concerns, but crackers and other petrochemical facilities are not located very fairly. All three counties are majority minority, the first two are over a third low income, and according to data from Texas Rising, if you rank all 254 counties in Texas for the overall environmental and social burdens they face, these three counties come in at #3, #8, and #53. "Banning Plastic Bags Is Great for the World, Right? ETHAN: But first, its time for Plastic Bags 101. Donate today tohelp keep Grists site and newsletters free. The 13 Best Electric Bikes for Every Kind of Ride, The Best Barefoot Shoes for Walking or Running. In fact, eight states have gone so far as to ban single-use plastic bags, and over 200 counties and municipalities have enacted ordinances either imposing a fee on plastic bags or. Paper bags do have some pros over plastic theyre biodegradable, recyclable, compostable, reusable, all the fun -ables. Now, for various reasons, political reasons, taxes are often not favored by politicians, because people dont like the word tax. Talk about consistency! California and Hawaii banned them, then New York. Then Christmas is for you. If they were going to use a slur for white people, why not name it Karen or Wonderbread? Do local governments get to say how these products are regulated? The Australian study concluded that the best option appears to be a reusable bag, but one made from recycled plastic, not cotton. So if you have a policy in your own city, but the next city over doesnt, and you decide to shop in then next city over to avoid the policy. To support our nonprofit environmental journalism, please consider disabling your ad-blocker to allow ads on Grist. I asked Dr. Taylor how we can account for the cost of alternatives when we create policies to address plastic bags. But if communicated to the public well, I think its an interesting idea, and Id be curious to see if a similar approach could work with bags. Microplastics can be ingested by anyone from seabirds to fish to even humans through our food and water, and can cause health issues, reduce appetites, and even increase the risk of mortality. Like cigarettes, plastic bags have recently gone from a tolerated nuisance to a widely despised and discouraged vice. In May 2016, the New York City Council passed a 5-cent-per-bag fee on single-use bags handed out by most retailers. The U.S. is the number two producer of polyethylene in the world behind China, and in the U.S., 80 percent of our primary petrochemical supply is in Texas and Louisiana. All donations doubled for a limited time. Oil and natural gas are also made of carbon and hydrogen, so in addition to using them for energy, we process them into plastic. There was a 72 percent drop in grocery bag litter in the state just one year after it was fully implemented. Were finding that hybrid bands can be as you know, as successful as the taxes, just standalone taxes. A pound of cotton requires more than 5,000 gallons of water on average, a thirst far greater than that of any vegetable and even most meats. Will we use our cotton tote hundreds or thousands of times? So what was this paper about and what were your findings? I hardly know her! Ironic.plastic is still better than cloth, but it just has to be more than single-use. (The crunchy rich should already have more than enough tote bags from PBS and Whole Foods.). Physicists Rewrite a Quantum Rule That Clashes With Our Universe. Thats one idea that Ive seen floated all over the internet. It may not be big enough. So if its not effective, and its expensive, its not a recommended policy tool. Its like the Snapchat of ocean trash its no YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, or Twitter, but its still relevant. Last month, the New York City Council passed a 5-cent-per-bag fee on single-use bags handed out by most retailers. Polyethylene, however, is recyclable. Climate change, they say, isnt the only form of environmental degradation to worry about. And then if when those you know are no longer possible, can we recycle them? But not just anywhere. ETHAN: Welcome to episode 106 of The Sweaty Penguin: Antarcticas Hottest Podcast. Very broadly, carbon footprints are proportional to mass of an object, says Tyler. The Secrets of Covid Brain Fog Are Starting to Lift. If they dont get reused a certain amount of time. No, of course not. Its the type of giving that allows us to plan for future projects and provides us with the consistent funding we need to continue bringing you the climate news that you rely on. And buy the thinnest reusable bag that you know, youll actually reuse. ITS COMPOSTABLE! Two weeks ago, the Massachusetts State Senate passed a measure that would ban plastic bags from being dispensed by many retail businesses and require a charge of 10 cents or more for a recycled paper or reusable bag. India followed the UK with a . What a deal! 12:48 PM PDT March 16, 2023. How Do We Protect Avocados From Drought, Deforestation, and Drug Cartels? They are not the largest sources of plastic pollution Plastic waste is indeed a. Maybe call the manager over or fly the CEO in on a helicopter or pull the fire alarm so everyone starts screaming and running. The Massachusetts proposal may not become law this year, but its the latest sign that the plastic bag industry is losing this war.