Furthermore, according to 2 Samuel 15:31, upon finding out about Ahithophel, David prayed to God to: turn Ahithophels counsel into foolishness.. The man said, She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite.. 9 However, Uriah slept at the palace entrance with all his masters servants. . Note that the Bible describes Bathsheba at this time as very beautiful (2 Samuel 11:2) and David was overcome with feelings of lust for her! Several scholars see Bathsheba as the granddaughter of Ahitophel,[10] as do passages in the Talmud. David roused himself to action. No, this is not a tu quoque fallacy, which is defined as: an informal fallacy that intends to discredit the opponents argument by asserting the opponents failure to act consistently in accordance with its conclusion(s).[79]. And do not give the weak-minded your property, which Allah has made a means of sustenance for you, but provide for them with it and clothe them and speak to them words of appropriate kindness. If we assume that the four years refers to the time from the commencement of the criminal schemes (per Barnes), that means that Solomon was no older than 9 years (2+3+2+2=9). After relating the parable of the rich man who took away the one little ewe lamb of his poor neighbor (2 Samuel 12:16), and exciting the king's anger against the unrighteous act, the prophet applied the case directly to David's action with regard to Bathsheba. From this rapid survey of the general calamity, David turns to the chief supporter of the rebellion, his former chief counsellor. The son of Ahithophel (2 Samuel 23:34)., [93] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/2-samuel/11-3.html, Bath-sheba, the daughter of Eliam or Ammiel (1 Chronicles 3:5), one of Davids worthies (2 Samuel 23:34), and son of Ahithophel., [94] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ckb/a/ahithophel.html, According to the Midrash, Ahithophel was Batshebas grandfather., [95] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/fbd/p/pelonite.html, [96] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hbd/p/pelonite.html, [97] https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/hdb/p/pelonite.html, [98] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/p/pelonite.html, [105] http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-An-Nisa/Giving-Back-the-Property-of-th, Tagged as: 2 Samuel, Absalom, Age of consent, Ahithophel, Bathsheba, Bible, Child Marriage, David, Eliam, Psalm 55, par excellence. [100] Perhaps most controversial is his refusal to assign a particular age to serve as a cutoff. It also means that she had married Uriah the Hittite at even earlier age. She is best known for the Biblical narrative in which she was summoned by King David, who had seen her bathing and lusted after her.[2]. According to Psalm 90:10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures;. It only criticizes the explanation of Ahithophels possible motive for helping Absalom (i.e., revenge for Davids sinful act with Bathsheba and the murder of Uriah the Hittite). Once David took the bait, Nathan pronounced Gods judgment: This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I anointed you king over Israel Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes? He betrayed David by joining Absaloms revolt. Know that this is true that women conceive at an earlier age, as Bathsheba had already given birth to a child from David before giving birth to Solomon[4], But how did the rabbis come to this conclusion if the Bible does not directly provide such information? [51] Pirkei Avot, Chapter 6, https://www.sefaria.org/Pirkei_Avot.6?lang=bi. They will vociferously deny that Bathsheba was around 7 years old (or perhaps as old as 9) when she first encountered David and they will deny that she was the granddaughter of Ahithophel. In this article, we have now seen blockbuster evidence of a beloved Biblical figure (~50-year old David) lusting after and marrying a young girl (~7-year old Bathsheba). Thus, Solomon was 911 years old at the time of his great-grandfathers death. It is omitted in the list of 1 Chronicles 11:1-47, but is now probably discernible as AHIJAH the Pelonite (1 Chronicles 11:36) (see Kennicott, Dissertation, p. 207). The Aggadah states that Ahithophel was misled by his knowledge of astrology into believing himself destined to become king of Israel. If we assume that the four years refers to the time from the commencement of the criminal schemes (per Barnes), that means that Solomon was no older than 9 years (2+3+2+2=9). Indeed the Talmud deduces the exact number of wives There is no reason to interpret the verse allegorically. Second, the Chronicler seemed to indicate that Ahithophel was still alive when David was old and nearing death! Only a minority of scholarly sources questioned this attribution, but the reasons they provided were weak (see note #49). Bathsheba later gave birth to David's son Solomon. I do not suffer from any misguided hope that all Christians will accept the facts presented in this article. So, here is a summary about Ahithophel and his role during Davids reign: If Ahithophel was Bathshebas grandfather, then determining his approximate age would allow us to estimate Bathshebas age as well. [5] According to 2 Samuel 23, Eliam was among the Thirty elite warriors under Davids command. Eliam, in turn, was the son of Ahitophel the Gilonite (2 Samuel 23:34). Bathsheba would have been between 16 and 19, because she was doing the ritual bath outlined in Leviticus 15::19-30 for women who have their period already (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+15%3A19-30&version=NIV). Uriah is summoned from the front From the roof he saw a woman bathing; the woman was very beautiful. Davids action, as Brueggemann (1990:272) describes it, was a demonstration of human desire and human power.. The man said, She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam To make matters worse, we need to allow at least 18 months (two pregnancies) between Davids first encounter with Bathsheba and Solomons birth (2 Samuel 11), which means that Bathsheba was around 79 years old at the time. The fact that David had to send several men to take Bathsheba may indicate that she was compelled to come to David. There is disagreement among the experts as to what age that should be. The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the, But 1 Chronicles 11:36 gives the alternate name for Eliam, the son of Ahithophel as Ahijah the Pelonite, so he cannot be the same person as the father of Bathsheba!, Third, if Ahijah is an alternate name for Eliam, it still does not refute the claim that Eliam was the son of Ahithophel and the father of Bathsheba, simply because the Chronicler does not provide any additional information. This illustrates that Ahithophel was probably a young man (Source: This brings us to the most crucial point of our academic journey of determining Ahithophels age. This verse is crucial. [5] Thus, Ahitophel was Bathshebas grandfather. Part of the reason for some Christians denial about child marriage in the Bible is that the Bible does not mention any specific age at which marriage could occur. Tomorrow Ill send you back. So Uriah stayed in Jerusalem that day. In a previous article, I demonstrated that the Bible generally allowed marriage and sex at the onset of puberty (with the exception of Numbers 31:18 which seemingly allowed sex even before puberty). According to the chronology of 2 Samuel 1315, two years had passed since Amnon had raped his half-sister Tamar (Absaloms sister),[70] when after killing Amnon, Absalom fled to Geshur, where he lived for 3 years. See the same link to the playlist. This could be shown with various degrees of nudity, depending on the pose and the placing of clothes or towels. Morris Jastrow, Jr., Morris et al. David had six wives while he ruled in Hebron as king of Judah. Though sometimes shown clothed at other points in her story, the most common depiction, in both medieval and later art, was Bathsheba at her Bath, the formal name for the subject in art showing Bathsheba bathing, watched by King David. Thus, he went back to his home and hanged himself (2 Samuel 17:23). [68] Similarly, Smiths Bible Dictionary states that he was approximately 32 years old and died around 1023 BCE (emphasis ours): a native of Giloh, was a privy councillor of David, whose wisdom was highly esteemed, though his name had an exactly opposite signification. Ahithophel was known as Davids counsellor, [41] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/pmc/psalms-55.html#23, And the prayer here used is followed with another in the history, to turn the counsel of Ahitophel, an enemy of his, but held in great reputation, into foolishness., [42] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, My guide my counselor; as Ahithophel was to David (1 Samuel 15:12; 1 Samuel 16:23)., [43] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/kad/psalms/55.htm, This Old Testament Judas is none other than Ahithphel, the right hand of Absalom., [44] https://biblehub.com/commentaries/lange/psalms/55.htm, In retaining this reference to David, however, we are not to think of Doeg, Ps. Second point, Talmud Sanhedrin 107a says she was shampooing her hair thus, negating the fact she was taking a ritual bath, as mentioned in Talmud Eruvin 4b the whole body must be in water not hair. The norm that the ulama did come to consensus on was only a general guideline: they prohibited sexual intercourse for girls not able to undergo it, on the basis that otherwise sex could be physically harmful. Indeed, this is highly unlikely given that Barzillai the Gileadite, who was 80 years old at the time of the revolt and was a supporter of David, was not willing to cross the Jordan river with David to go to Jerusalem from Mahanaim after Absaloms defeat and death because he was too old.[65]. Hehehe, you guys are really funny. [17][18][19][20][21][22], Bathsheba (Barsabeh, Bathsabeh) is venerated in Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church as a saint. 16:21), which sooner or later would have brought with it, according to Jewish law, the penalty of death; the motive for this advice being to remove Absalom, and thus to make a way for himself to the throne. Yes, we do believe that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a role-model for all times. Some Bible dictionaries mention both Eliams without any additional information. David's genealogy in 1 Chronicles 3 says that he had 19 sons by his wives and concubines and one daughter, Tamar, whose mother isn't named in scripture. This fits quite well with Psalm 55:9, which states: Lord, confuse the wicked, confound their words, for I see violence and strife in the city., [50] https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16276/showrashi/true/jewish/Chapter-55.htm. [2] Thus, Christians will reject the estimation of Abishag and Marys ages (approximately 12 years) because the Bible does not specifically state it and because the estimate comes from Jewish commentaries or historical evidence or even the early church fathers and not from the Biblical text.[3]. In David's old age, Bathsheba, based on David's promise, secured the succession to the throne by Solomon, instead of David's elder surviving sons by his other wives, such as Chileab (2 Samuel 3:16), Adonijah (1 Kings 1:1131) and others (2 Samuel 3:16). [15] As a queen and mother, she was also associated with the Blessed Virgin Mary as Queen of Heaven. And the claim that Allah is a moon God has been debunked many times. This question of succession threatens to throw the nation of Israel into civil war upon David's death. David was one of the greatest men in Scripture. As Jonathan Brown explains: the medieval ulama considered the point at which a girl was fit for intercourse to be too varied to be firmly legislated for. Great. This elite group also included Uriah the Hittite (v. 39). [32] John Phillips, The John Phillips Commentary Series: Exploring Psalms: An Expository Commentary, Vol. Strengths He never kept time or season with God, and surely God will not keep or regard his time or season., In the Jewish account threescore years was the age of a man, and death at any time before that was looked upon as untimely, The more sins we do commit, the more we hasten our own death; because as the wise man saith, The fear of the Lord prolongeth days, but the years of the wicked shall be shortened (Pro 10:27); and the prophet David saith, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days; for sin is an epitomiser or shortener of everything: it consumes our wealth, it confines our liberty, it impeaches our health, and it abbreviates our life, and brings us speedily unto our grave., [61] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/wen/psalms-55.html#23, But shall be cut off by an untimely and violent death., David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned forty years., Saul was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty-two years.. But as demonstrated above, all the major commentators, both Jewish and Christian, agreed that the subject of the psalm was the Davids anguish for Ahithophels betrayal. [29][30][31] Lawrence O. Richards states that the biblical text supports the innocence of Bathsheba, that David took the initiative to find out her identity and summon her, and that she was alone at the time and had no way to refuse the requests of a King. For Davids close counselor and friend, Ahithophel, actually revolted against David when Absalom did. Furthermore, God approved of David remaining married to Bathsheba, which resulted in the birth of Solomon, whom God loved. (LogOut/ It is not impossible that this Eliam is the same as the preceding., [88] https://www.studylight.org/encyclopedias/mse/e/eliam.html, The same name Eliam also occurs as that of a Gilonite, the son of Ahithophel, and one of Davids thirty warriors (2 Samuel 23:34). The only solution would be to assume that Ahithophel was mentioned in passing and was actually dead (the Chronicler states that Ahithophel was succeeded by Jehoiada). However, in 1 Chronicles the names are very different: Bathsheba is called Bathshua the daughter of Ammiel in 1 Chronicles 3:5. Called Ammiel, 1 Chronicles 3:5. Updates? So does Barnes Notes on the Bible (emphasis ours): The meaning is, that they do not live half as long as they might do, and would do, if they were not bloody and deceitful.[53]. As far as I am aware, this evidence has not been discussed before in Muslim-Christian debates, so it is completely new (though it is not a new discovery). Then David comforted his wife, Bathsheba, and went into her and lay with her, and she bore a son, and he called his name Solomon (2 Samuel 12:24).Davids actions may not seem like a comfort to She was especially loyal to her son Solomon, making sure he followed David as king, even though Solomon was not David's firstborn son. Hence, this appeal fails to prove that the two Eliams in 2 Samuel were different people. [13], The Midrash portrays the influence of Satan bringing about the sinful relation of David and Bathsheba as follows: Bathsheba was bathing, perhaps behind a screen of wickerwork. Bathsheba's son, King Solomon, rises to greet her, bows down in veneration, and furnishes her a seat at his right hand. David, shooting at the bird, strikes the screen, splitting it; thus Bathsheba is revealed in her beauty to David.[14]. Uriah. The plain reading of the text makes it unlikely. They write new content and verify and edit content received from contributors. In fact, Ahithophel is mentioned along with Hushai the Arkite in 1 Chronicles 27:33: Ahithophel was the kings counselor. xxiii. The adultery scandal and the subsequent revolt by Absalom and Ahithophel would have required a clarification, but only if the author meant to refer to different people. As an opportunity to feature a large female nude as the focus of a history painting, the subject was popular from the Renaissance onwards. 34,) was one of Davids valiant men, [92] https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/bul/2-samuel-11.html#3, Eliam. And in 2 Samuel 13 the story of David's son Amnon's rape of his sister Tamar, told so soon after the incident of Bathsheba, seems to draw a parallel between the sexual misconduct of father and son. Nathan noted that Yahweh would punish David's house for Uriah's murder and taking his wife, and would let someone close ( rea) to David take away / seize ( laqach) all his wives and have him lie with / rape ( kab) them in broad daylight for everyone to see (2 Samuel 12:912). In turn, to determine her age at the time of Solomons (David and Bathshebas second son) birth, we need to first determine Solomons age at the time of Ahithophels death. As the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary, Jehoiadas life was protracted to unusual longevity. So, if Ahithophel was less than 40 years of age at the time of his death (let us conservatively assume he was 39 years old), and he was Bathshebas grandfather, then how old could Bathsheba have been around this time? Using Psalm 55:23, it would mean that Ahithophel could not have gone past the age of 45 years (note again that this is the, Even if David slept with a 7-year old, that does not mean that God approved of it!, This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: I anointed you king over Israel Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing, Notice that the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite. In an effort to conceal his sin, David summoned Uriah from the army (with whom he was on campaign) in the hope that Uriah would have sex with her and think that the child belonged to him. He also gives 3 main reasons why it is not recommended to set a certain cutoff for basic rights, these being: This is more or less how medieval Islamic scholars dealt with the issue. [] Altogether it seems to us to relate to that mournful era when the King was betrayed by his trusted counsellor., [34] https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Psa/Psa_051.cfm?a=533001, Now David evidently wrote this psalm when he was fleeing from Absalom. (2Samuel 16:23), So, if Ahithophel was less than 40 years of age at the time of his death (let us conservatively assume he was. [95] Holmans Bible Dictionary argues that the Chronicler may have confused the title of Helez the Paltite (2 Samuel 23:26) and that Ahijah the Pelonite was a textual corruption. Since Bathsheba could not have been older than 20 at the time (since Ahithophel was 39 years old and Eliam was probably in his late 20s), which means that at the time of Solomons birth, Then King David said to the whole assembly: My son Solomon, the one whom God has chosen, is young [, Based on this seemingly contradictory information, let us follow the, Your argument is based on a selective interpretation of Psalm 55., You are taking Psalm 55:23 too literally!, Maybe people could live even longer than 80 years of age at the time of David! Psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein has made the controversial suggestion that young people, regardless of how young, should be allowed to make decisions about marriage and sex provided that they demonstrate that he or she knows about the risks of sexis physically and emotionally mature, and so on[99] He also suggests that they should have to pass one or more appropriate competency tests. Adonijah, the fourth son of King David from Haggith (2 Samuel 3:4). Notice that the sin was in killing Uriah the Hittite and taking his wife! It should also be borne in mind that David was a prophet, as stated in Acts 2:30: But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.. Furthermore, God approved of David remaining married to Bathsheba, which resulted in the birth of Solomon, whom God loved. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. The report came back: Isnt this Eliams daughter Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite? 4 So David sent messengers to take her. another great academic article. And Im about to make articles as a form of ultimate refutations to your silly allegations. I swear on your very life,[d] I will not do that!. This is the thing that really hurt David, is that Absalom had turned against him., [35] https://www.studylight.org/commentary/psalms/55-13.html, as mine equal: i.e. [64] Traveling from Giloh to Hebron, then from Hebron to Jerusalem, and then from Jerusalem to Giloh does not sound like the itinerary of an elderly man. If Solomon was 11 years old at the time of Ahithophels death (the non-conservative estimate), then Bathsheba would have been around 9 years old at the time of Solomons birth. People were ready to take on the responsibilities of marriage and family by the time they reached puberty. There are 2 videos refuting IC on Marys age. When David was dying, Bathsheba successfully conspired with the prophet Nathan to block Adonijahs succession to the throne and to win it for Solomon. WebNow king David was old and stricken in years; and they covered him with clothes, but he got no heat. A minority of scholars questioned the application of the psalm to Ahithophel. My bad. The passages in which Bath-sheba is mentioned are 2 Samuel 11:212:24, and 1 Kings 1:2both of which are parts of the oldest stratum of the books of Samuel and Kings, part of that court history of David, written by someone who stood very near the events and who did not idealize David. The couple had concluded the marriage contract when Aisha was only six but had waited to consummate the marriage until she reached physical maturity.[103]. [80] Some others do question the identification of Bathshebas father with Eliam the son of Ahithophel but do not provide concrete evidence. The Lord loved him; 25 and because the Lord loved him, he sent word through Nathan the prophet to name him Jedidiah. Thus, while marriage at the onset of puberty was not unusual, the Bible indicates that both marriage and sexual intercourse were sometimes permitted at very young ages (though this does not appear to be the norm). Ali Al-Ridha got upset and said: "Inna Lillahi wa inna ilaihi raji'un, you assign sluggishness in prayer to the prophet of God, and then accuse him of unchastity, and then charge him with the murder of an innocent man!" [63] Finally, he returned to Giloh and hanged himself after Absalom failed to take his advice. Bathsheba was the daughter of Eliam (2 Samuel 11:3, Ammiel in 1 Chronicles 3:5). He lived well past half [the] days of the normal lifespan. "[4] According to Michael D. Coogan, the faulting of David is made clear in the text from the very beginning: "It was springtime, the time when kings go forth to war but David remained in Jerusalem" (2 Samuel 11:1); if David had been away at war, the incident would not have taken place. Thus, while some people (a, Even if we grant a new upper limit, 90 years, that does not improve the situation for embarrassed Christian apologists. Figure 1: Map showing how far Ahithophel would have travelled in the short-lived coup attempt by Absalom. I dont think Mohamad was saying he believes those things (?). However, this was clearly not the norm (even if true). The oldest man in the Bible, after the patriarchs, was Jehoiada, who supposedly died at the age of 130 (2 Chronicles 24:15). So after Uriah was incidentally killed in the war, David married his wife, but people could hardly accept this anomalous marriage (and subsequently legends were made about this marriage. At the time of Absaloms revolt he deserted David (Psalms 41:9 ; 55:12-14). What if someone was 90 years old at the time?, Yes, this is certainly possible, but where is the evidence from the Bible? Most, though not all, of the evidence for the age of marriage comes from outside the Bible (i.e., from outside scripture), which some Christians ignore because it is not inspired. Moreover, according to the, Ahijah the Pelonite appears in 2 Samuel 23:34 as Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, of which, But David was not a role model for all times! The name Eliam is only mentioned twice in the entire Bible, and both instances occur in 2 Samuel. God gave Bathsheba a son, Solomon. In fact, the ages of women are not mentioned except in a few places (e.g., the age of Sarah when she gave birth to Isaac). Other commentators also explain the verse this way. Actually, God had no problem with it. Bathsheba was the wife of Uriah the Hittite. A girls period can start at different ages, so thats not a good argument. Thus, Bathsheba could have been around 12-14 years old at the time of the birth of Solomon, which means that she was around 10-12 years old at the time David first encountered her. The Woman Was Very Beautiful: The Shocking Truth About Bathshebas Marriage to David in the Bible, Originally posted on the Quran and Bible Blog, From the roof he saw a woman bathing.
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