However, leaks do occur. R134a Expansion valve different from R12? Boiling Point: R134a refrigerants boiling point is -26.3C (-15.34F). You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. Reusing Refrigerant: Refrigerant must be properly recycled or reclaimed before it can be reused, even if it is being returned to the vehicle from which it was removed. See your PT chart. Older fridges and air conditioning units that use this refrigerant will still work efficiently, and converting them to more modern refrigerants will be difficult and unrealistically expensive. These applications will - due to browser restrictions - send data between your browser and our server. An R134a-specific expansion valve was preferred but not strictly necessary. R134a was the replacement refrigerant for R12. R12 is found in all kinds of refrigeration, ice makers, air conditioners, water coolers, transport refrigeration, and chillers. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. Were most familiar with water, which we see as ice when its cold, liquid when its at room temperature, and steam when we boil it. This product is non-toxic, non-flammable, and not explosive, so its extremely safe to use for domestic refrigeration. dye and seal. My name is Bob Wells and I am a retired HVAC tech from Washington state. R-600a vs. R-134a: Which Is The Better Refrigerant? Both of these gasses are very safe for use in all forms of refrigeration as theyre not flammable, explosive, or toxic. R-134a vs R-1234yf: What's the difference and how to - YouTube The alternator, sometimes called a generator, generates electricity to charge the battery and power all the electric auxiliaries while driving. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. But once youre on that path, you can improve the system with a new compressor and parallel-flow condenser which, in most cases, will allow you to get good results with R134a. R134a has a boiling point of -14.9 degrees Fahrenheit, whereas R410 boils at -61.9 degrees. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. Its been likened to trying to convert a petrol engine to run on diesel. No one here will work on it, he said. The advantage of ester oil is that it works with both R12 as well as R134a, so you can fill the system with it and then use either refrigerant.Sha. Both of these refrigerants wont be used in new air conditioning or refrigeration plants, but theyll continue to be used in existing plants and the automotive industry. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. You can spend interesting evenings going down the rabbit hole online and reading posts from folks who vigorously defend flammable refrigerants and say, You do know that your car carries 20 gallons of flammable gasoline, dont you? Yes, but gasoline usually isnt routed through the passenger compartment, and theres a zero-tolerance policy toward gasoline leakage. Dont do it. Lets have a closer look at these similarities and differences. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. The original rubber a/c hose lines in your car will leak out R12 through the hoses lining. Get it as soon as Thursday, Apr 20. Because R134a is an HFC, not a CFC (stay with me for a minute), it does not have the ozone-destroying properties of R12. A qualified technician should vacuum out the gas and the refrigerant changed for something more modern and environmentally sympathetic. You confirmed my decisions in one elegant post (as opposed to the 60-odd hours of blog post readings and YouTube videos). Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. There should also be a blue sticker somewhere on the system telling you the date the system was converted. In Stock. All signatories to the Montreal Treaty stopped the production of CFC products. Its among the greenhouse gases and will keep adding the current problem of heat not leaving the earths atmosphere. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. Many older automotive systems still use R12, and as youre still able to purchase individual small cans of this refrigerant via on-line marketplaces, its use in many classic motor vehicles will likely continue. Typically 5 to 6 ounces of a/c oil is adequate but this may vary depending upon the car. The hose length is 60 inches and comes with a 1-year warranty. Generally this works well for the whole system. A significant investment. International manufacturing of new R12 ceased in 1996, but existing R12 can still be reclaimed and purified. And that brings us to, I continue to use R12 in two of my carsmy 1972 BMW 2002tii and 1973 Bavaria. As this product is highly damaging to the environment, the environmental treaty signed in Montreal in 1987 stopped the use of CFC refrigerants, which included R12. The issue is whether you should. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. Note that there is another kind of oil called Polyol Ester Oil (POE). Santech R12 to R134a Coupler . It also means that rotary, centrifugal, and reciprocating compressors can be used with R12. (To be clear, both cars also have a new rotary-style compressor and a big parallel-flow condenser and fan.). This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. Yes, theres a certain irony in the fact that weve gone full-circle from the invasive youll need to replace almost everything including the compressor and hoses in order to properly convert R12 to R134a to you dont need to replace all that much; just flush it, new oil, new drier and o-rings, and back to youll need to replace almost everything including the compressor, hoses, and the condenser. But this change has occurred both because the cars are that much older than they were when the R12 to R134a change occurred in the mid-1990s, and there is now a better understanding of the need to take advantage of updated compressors and condensers in order to get the A/C systems to blow adequately cold with R134a. Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. Its a safe product for use in a variety of domestic and commercial environments. Unfortunately, converting existing air conditioners that use R22 to use new refrigerants isnt easy. R12 vs R134a Refrigerant: What is the Difference? - 2022 Complete Guide With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. Thats not the case with R12, ensuring that the efficiency of the plant isnt compromised. However, you will need different recovery machines and other equipment to handle R1234yf. If your vehicle is after 1994, you could use R-134a in its air conditioning system. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. The maximum value is 1. This makes it expensive to purchase and adds to the attraction of replacing it with other greener products. The weight is only 2.4 ounces. Its chemical name is dichlorodifluoromethane, and its chemical formula is CCl2F2. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. In todays world, the combination of its ozone-depleting ability and its contribution to global warming makes this product a major issue for many countries. For instance at 25 F the pressure of R-12 is 24.6 PSI and the pressure of R-134a is 22.1 PSI. If you use anything other than R134a, youll likely create a situation where you must be the one servicing the system. Ensure you contact a professional mechanic to do the work for you so you dont end up incurring more costs for yourself. Compete replacement may be the only answer. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. This means that this compound is made up of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. R134a is safe to use as its not toxic, flammable, or explosive. However, its been shown that R134a is as destructive to the environment, and newer refrigerants have been created to overcome this problem. R12 has not be manufactured for a long time it was outlawed in the US. R134a belongs to the family of HFCs or hydrofluorocarbons. 2021 Complete Guide. Many existing fridges and air conditioning units still use this refrigerant and work very efficiently. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. There is R744, which is literally carbon dioxide (CO2). Motor manufacturers in the USA used R134a in air conditioning systems for new cars from 1994. Which brings us to. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. R-134a entirely dominated the automotive market by 1994. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. The major reason for the replacement of R12 with R134a was to curb future greenhouse effects. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. Its often said that R12 is no longer available. Small NOS cans of R12 are widely available on eBay and Craigslist for about $30 apiece. R12 is extremely stable and wont deteriorate operating under the most extreme conditions. What Happens If You Put R134a in an R12 System? - techtown In the last 10 years, new information has shown that this gas contributes to global warming. R134a replaced R12 from 1994 onwards. R134a is a greenhouse gas, while R1234yf has a lower global warming . You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. To take one of these and convert it to R134a was usually a recipe for disappointment. Buy online for free next day delivery or same day pickup at a store near you. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. Most countries frown on the use of these gasses due to their environmental impact. All refrigeration plants use compressors to compress the gas returning from collecting heat, raise its temperature further, and compress it to facilitate cooling. This means that the tiny droplets of oil from the compressor that end up in the refrigerant will be returned via the compressors refrigerant; they wont block pipes. This should give you a rough idea of how much youll need. The Difference Between Refrigerants R134A and R410A Gas? Refrigerant: Must be EPA-approved and cannot be intentionally released (vented) into the environment. BTW Im sorta tempted to buy one of your BMW 2002 cars. The cylinder head gasket is one of the most over-engineered and stressed components in an internal combustion engine. This product does contain dangerous chemicals such as methyl chloride and vinyl chloride, both of which are carcinogenic and may cause congenital disabilities. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. Hell, its possible that not all of the original A/C components are even there anymore. Problem solved, right? One cant discount its drawbacks, but theres a great deal of knowledge and information available on safely using the product. Price is reasonable Consistent and accurate The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. Also worth noting is that the R-600a requires a shorter time to reach -21C (60 minutes) compared to the R-134a (135 minutes) [1]. All these industries still have old plants that use these refrigerants. R134a refrigerant is lighter than R12. R12 costs about 4 times as much as R134a. The conversion to more modern refrigerants will require a replacement of the system, which will cause issues in terms of originality when showing this type of vehicle. When theyre in a liquid state, theyll remove heat from air passing over the pipes theyre in and slowly evaporate to form a gas. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. However, there are some drawbacks to using this type as well. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. That doesnt mean to say that theyre no longer used. If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. . R134a has an ozone depletion potential of 0, implying that it has a slight effect on the ozone layer. Awareness of Changing Refrigerant Types - I-CAR Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Unfortunately, taking the longer view of things, even if you do leak-test a car thoroughly and properly all A/C systems leak eventually, so any can of R12 you put into a car will likely wind up in the atmosphere, an eventuality that I am less and less comfortable with. Nevertheless, repeat after me: It is illegal to vent refrigerant. Because of R1234yfs mild flammability, BMW and Mercedes are now adopting R744. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). If an A/C system isnt working, the root cause needs to be diagnosed, and the system needs to be fixed. Thats simply not true. Given two identical vehicles, each with the same weighted amount of refrigerant, the vehicle with the R134a has the capability to remove more heat (measured in btus) from the vehicle than the same type of vehicle using the same amount of R12. He passed. Converting them is extremely expensive, and in many cases, replacement is the only option available. PDF R134a R513A - Tecumseh Products EPA is authorized to assess fines of up to $37,500 per day for any violation of these regulations.. Its been used in the refrigeration industry for a long time, so theres a large body of knowledge established around the product. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. However, some old air conditioning units still use them. For this reason, when a car is being sold these days, R12 is often seen as a liability, a looming conversion expense, even if the system is functional and cold. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. The most significant disadvantage of this product is the damage that it can do to the environment if its vented irresponsibly. R12 and R134a are not the only game in town. The molecule size of R134a is smaller than that of R12, so there was concern that R134a could leak out through the hoses and flare fittings that R12 systems used. The molecule size of R134a is smaller than that of R12, so there was concern that R134a could leak out through the hoses and flare fittings that R12 systems used. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. You can find many videos and web forum posts where people retrofit R152a into cars that originally had R12 and profess excellent results, but it is not approved by the EPA for retrofit applications, only new car applications. R134A has an ODP of zero, meaning that it has a negligible effect on the ozone layer. R134a A/C retrofit and low pressure cycling switch adjustment Over time, a credible middle ground emerged. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. Theyve moved away from using R12 in favor of more modern, environmentally safer products. But in order for refrigeration to work, you need something that has a low boiling point, something that exists as a gas at room temperature and can be easily pressurized into a liquid so that, when it is allowed to expand, it immediately boils at room temperature and cools. As a result, each refrigerant's system requirements are quite . Not so fast. Most importantly, the oil used in the plant must always be compatible with the refrigerant used. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. R134a was developed to replace R12, so it works over the same range of applications. Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. This means that when exposed to the environment, it exists as a gas. This is measured using a factor known as ODP (ozone depletion potential). On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. The service ports in both systems are quick-connect, but they are taller in the yf systems to avoid cross-contamination. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. Its called Polyol Ester Oil or POE oil. You can get it and use it. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. So when someone says, You cant get R12 anymore, or Its illegal to use R12, those things simply arent true. These two refrigerants are very similar. For R12, its mineral oil. This is because the pressure temperature relationship of R-12 and R-134a is different. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. These properties make it very attractive for domestic, commercial, and automotive refrigeration and air conditioning. Many existing installations continue to use the product. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Using the specs for the current system, multiply the R12 charge by 0.9 or 90% to determine the refrigerant capacity. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. This means that the mineral oil in the system wont dissolve. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. Anyway on the low side R134a runs about 2 psi lower than R12 at equivalent temperatures.
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