By addressing the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the cars performance and fuel efficiency can be improved. Any suggestions on what to do would be helpful? At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. Unfortunately, many users reported a return of the symptoms after the 21B10 reflash. What did you do to your truck today? If youre experiencing engine shudder in your Ford vehicle, please bring it to your nearest dealership or service center so we can take a look and get it fixed up for you as soon as possible. Reaction score. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. The PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is a computer located in a cars engine that controls the cars engine and transmission. Customer Satisfaction Program 21N08 Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder LABOR ALLOWANCES Description Labor Operation Labor Time Test drive to verify engine shudder and reprogram PCM to last revision. How will this extend your powertrain warranty 2 years? There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. Thanks! BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the. If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. I have a 2018, just got the same notice. Sorry my Ford pass just updated and now I have the 21N08 and 21N03. (1). You are using an out of date browser. #5. Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. Ford TSB 21N08: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2019 Ford F-150. 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08), Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum. additional VCT or engine timing related components not included in the Parts List. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) - Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. It is important to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue to maintain the performance and safety of the vehicle. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. Advertising - Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low percentage . If you are an astute shopper, you might have found these issues before buying a vehicle. That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. .any advice? The 21B10 was designed to solve a cam phasers rattle by increasing oil flow to them, but a percentage of affected vehicles demonstrated the side effect of an engine shudder. These are named 21N03 which is targeted to the startup rattle and replaces the cam phasers. Proper maintenance is essential to keep a cars engine and transmission running smoothly. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. I have a new to me 2017 SCREW that I purchased about a month ago. Manage Preferences - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. So far, the results are positive. The recall does not mean there is anything wrong with the vehicle, its a software update to prevent a phaser rattle noise from developing. If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. All the VCT solenoid and spark plug tube seals require inspection, but not all require replacement. Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. Are CSP's only performed as needed? Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts. 5. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. I imagine that you may get the cold start rattle and earlier cam phaser failure, but at least the engine wont shudder. PCM reprogram due to engine shudder (Program 21n08) That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Pcv Valve Ford 4.2 Liter V6 Engine Diagram . Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. t seems like every other Raptor and Ford 10R80 has these issues. Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. This resolves the cam phaser noise on startup issue (you know, the annoying Ford cold start cam phaser rattle). By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. Mine doesn't die like yours, but definitely a problem there. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder . Ford then released two further customer satisfaction programs as an extension of coverage. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. Brought it back to the dealership and they ran the 21N08 - PCM Reprogam Due to . Summary of Related Cam Phaser Rattle Recalls: How Much Does Cam Phaser Replacement Out Of Warranty Cost? JavaScript is disabled. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. At the time of the PCM reprogramming, it may address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, as this issue is often caused by a problem with the PCM software. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Advertising - Cookie Policy - When the computer is programmed, it will erase this programming andthe vehicle will have to relearn your driving habits. Dealer will. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". @Lawnpro have you changed your spark plugs yet? This issue is often caused by a software glitch or by using incompatible software for the specific make and model of the car. Id look much closer at a CPO truck than the remaining 2nd hand market. Posts: 20. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received the 21B10 flash. What is my next option? Just extended the coverage. What is this all about? You are using an out of date browser. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. Terms of Service - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . Was it stalling or did the auto shutoff just turn it off for a few seconds? This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. It may not display this or other websites correctly. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. I had the original work done under warranty 54k . document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); We use cookies to personalise content and ads, to provide social media features and to analyse our traffic. This new customer satisfaction program is designed to reverse engine shudder caused by this previous PCM calibration. Thats why you have to take the help of a mechanic or dealership. When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. They are past due. Mine had only recently started rattling on startup. It is difficult for me to get a price right now on the PCM reprogramming since it is still under warranty for a few more weeks, so most front-desk service advisors dont have pricing. Mine does this while at low rpms. Ford TSB 21N08 2019 F-150 | CarComplaints.com Shudder/Jerking Issue When Accelerating - Ford F150 Forum I am actually looking to buy my first F150 3.5L EcoBoost, as a used truck, but have seen a lot of posts regarding the. This just appeared in my ford pass. The Ford F150 sold 663,508 trucks in 2021, beating out Ram and GM. This can be caused by something as simple as a loose spark plug, or something more serious like an issue with the crankshaft or connecting rods. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. There is a new Recall specifically for this. Cookie Policy - Yep I have been told it just means that Ford is extending the warranty in regards to cam phasers to 75k I believe. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. There is a recall, Mine has the same issue with the shudder after that recall. Privacy Statement - Reboot. You literally just typed back exactly what I said. The 21N08 PCM reprogramming is due to an engine shudder that was noticed by some customers. The first software update was performed on my 2018 three weeks ago and did not solve the issue. The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. The affected bikes were sold at Walmart stores nationwide from February 2018 through July 2018. 21n08 - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans Go back and tell the dealer is has a shudder. 21N08 Ford Technical Service Bulletin - tsbsearch.com No matter what the cause of your engine shudder may be, its always best to err on the side of caution and get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. If it becomes corrupted or damaged, it can cause all sorts of problems including engine shudder. might be auto on/off that truck comes equipped with, There is a new Recall specifically for this. If it is, theyll likely recommend getting the pcm reprogrammed. If the rpm is above 16-1800 it drives smooth as can be. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Its usually most noticeable at idle, but can also be felt when accelerating. Plenty of better engineered options out there. Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Hmmm? Cam phaser requires extensive effort and should only be attempted by those who are comfortable with working on cars. Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. The initial cam phasers rattle would generally first appear on a cold start due to a lack of oil. The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years. We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. I appreciate the help. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, such as replacing transmission components or performing other repairs, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received . Your mechanic can hook up a diagnostic tool to your car to determine if this is the issue. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. The situation is really bad with Ford now. Oftentimes, this engine shudder may be mistaken for a transmission shudder. The problem stems from the fact that these vehicles are equipped with an engine control module (ECM) that can fail due to a software error. It is not necessary to remove the two left valve cover camshaft sensors. Thats why were committed to quickly addressing any issues that may arise with our vehicles. Surprised to not see a whole slew of threads or posts on 21N08. Fords are equipped with an adaptive shift feature where the computer learns to adjust the shifting for a smoother ride based on the drivers habits. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. Has Ford corrected the Cam Phaser rattle in Gen3? In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. You are using an out of date browser. Since we know what these issues are, you are safe to buy one of these Ford models. If not, you will want to get the latest computer updates before the warranty expires on it. Later that day, it stalled again when I was at a red light. So far, these recalls have been effective at solving the problem and improving customer satisfaction. This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners . In rare instances, some vehicles will experience an engine shudder after reprogramming the PCM with the 21B10 update. 2019 F150 Shudder/Vibration | Page 2 | F150 Ecoboost Forum General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. How Much Does A Powertrain Control Module Reflash Cost? Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. Reprogram the PCM using the latest software level of the appropriate Ford . Contact Us - I noticed mine is doing this as well. Strange first post. They only pay the dealership 75-80% of the labor cost, and guess what, the technicians are the ones who have to cover the difference. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. A manufacturer customer satisfaction program is a voluntary initiative undertaken by a company to improve customer satisfaction. I hope that you find everything you need on our website and that we can help guide you through all your automotive needs. Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; . Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Both will appear on the carfax of every affected VIN, which includes 2017 to early 2020 models. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. My truck has 8600 miles on it currently. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. Contact Us - Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? The good news is that replacing the cam phasers will fix the cold start rattle. and if so an updated calibration will be applied. We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. MORE importantly, do it or not, it says they will only cover repairs until JAN 1, 2023. JavaScript is disabled. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. If your check engine light is on and youre experiencing engine shudder, your car may need a pcm reprogram. At the time I scheduled service, I clarified that whether or not my vehicle had experienced a rattle at startup, that a reprogramming would be done. Privacy Statement - Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. Lincoln TSB 21N08 2019 Navigator | CarComplaints.com Buy or Avoid? 2nd Gen with #21B10 and #21N08 and - Ford Raptor Forum PDF TO: SUBJECT: Customer Satisfaction Program 21N03 - Supplement #1 The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance, Benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, Improving performance and fuel efficiency. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? Terms of Service - If you previously received the 21B10 PCM update at a Ford dealer and are now experiencing the engine shudder, you should take advantage of the PCM reprogram. Thank you for choosing Ford! I'm a long-time Ford and automotive enthusiast, and I've been writing about cars for over 10 years. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. Reliability is important to me. Hey! Or, if your vehicle has been in a collision, the impact could have damaged the PCM. If your car is experiencing engine shudder, it may be time for a PCM reprogram. Once 21B10 is done, it unlocks two customer satisfaction programs 21N03 and 21N08. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. So, it is certainly very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the drivers and passengers. Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? By updating the software, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder 21N08 issue. to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. This is because the PCM reprogramming process addresses the root cause of the issue and can help to prevent the issue from recurring in the future. I scheduled the initial step of the Cam Phaser Reprogramming about three weeks ago. If your Ford car or truck is experiencing engine shudder, it could be the result of a variety of different issues. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle, Rear Light Wiring Ford Tail Light Wire Colors, Top 6 Brake Pads for 2013 Ford F150 44: Find the Perfect Fit for Your Truck, 6 Best Mud Flaps for F150: Ultimate Guide for Truck Owners, Boost Your F150s Power: Best 9 Cold Air Intakes for 2017 Ecoboost Reviewed. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. Good thing I bought the extended warranty. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. PCM Reprogram Due To Engine Shudder 21N08 - Tool Tally Be aware that your cam phaser rattle may return. This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. it's a software update to prevent a phaser . Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". These are technically not recalls but an extension of coverage if the customer has a concern and falls within the window of . If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. It may not display this or other websites correctly. were completed so that you will be covered by the Ford warranty of 70k miles regarding cam phasers/VCT systems. I had the first PCM recall done too, but have an engine shudder issue. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. Ford TSB 21N08 Make: Ford Number: 21N08 Date: 10/29/2021 Title: PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder Summary: In a very low percentage of the affected vehicles, an engine shudder may develop after receiving the PCM update provided in program 21B10. From what the rep told me 21B10 needed to be done before 21N08 even though I have a FSA for 21N08. We also share information about your use of our site with our social media, advertising and analytics partners. . I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about 14. Engine. Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . PDF TO - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration In some cases, a little bit of harmless vibrations is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. Only detectable at a crawl speed. Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. develop an undesirable noise. '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. X-Bull winch reviews | Where are they made? By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. However, for peace of mind, Ford is providing an extended warranty for customers who receive the PCM update under program 21B10 prior to December 31, 2021 and continue to experience cam phaser noise after receiving that PCM update, A cam phaser that has developed an undesirable noise does not affect the vehicle safety, performance, or emissions. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. In some cases, this can lead to a crash. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It involves surveying customers to identify areas where they are dissatisfied and then taking action to improve those areas. Your email address will not be published. Recall 21B10 is a campaign by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to recall certain models of childrens bicycles. The engine shudders 21N08 issue is a problem that causes the engine to shake or shudder. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is.If you were in my position, would you pull the trigger on any of those trucks? Reaction score. It was also discussed that the reprogramming could result in a shudder in the drive train which would require further work. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. In some cases, the engine may enter limp mode. I would like to hear from some of the owners which have had the 21N08 update done and see if their issues have gone away. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder . JavaScript is disabled. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. The previous 21B10 customer satisfaction update was designed to send more oil to the cam phasers. 21N08 update, So I do not know if should pull the trigger or not. First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. 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ford program 21n08 pcm reprogram due to engine shudder 2023